Digital content and kids IP specialist Nico Lockhart shares what producers can learn about audience development and content production from YouTube.
Find this episode of the Screen Australia Podcast on Apple Podcasts, Spotify or Pocket Casts
For digital content strategist Nico Lockhart, online storytelling offers an opportunity for creatives and businesses to upskill, expand and build audiences like never before.
During the episode, we discuss the opportunities and challenges of working with online programming, as Lockhart shares the importance of a good thumbnail, why a viral video could take years, and how the direct-to-audience model is evolving with its audience.
Lockhart shares his insights into developing kids IP for online formats and the business potential of the platform, as well as his observations about the parallels between traditional media and online media production. And for film or television producers looking to make the transition to online platforms like YouTube, he says it’s never too late to get started. The key is making creative decisions with your distribution platform in mind.
“Approach it more like a startup, so your property and your series for YouTube potentially needs to be more of an IP model,” he says. “YouTube is another type of consumer demand. It’s no different from stuff we’ve done before. It’s just thinking about it a little bit differently.”
Learn more from the conversation wherever you listen to podcasts.
Resources
- Learn more about developing kids IP for YouTube with Nico Lockhart via the Kids IP Incubator webinar. Find out more about the Kids IP Incubator workshops and the successful online teams here.
- Hear from other successful online creators through The Colin & Samir Show.
Data sources
- YouTube by the Numbers
- The Gauge: Neilsen’s Total TV and Streaming Snapshot – March 2025
- PARK: Precise Advertiser Report – Kids – 2023
Subscribe to the Screen Australia Podcast on Apple Podcasts, Spotify or Pocket Casts
Audio Transcript
[00:00:06] Aimée Lindorff Welcome to the Screen Australia podcast. I’m your host, Aimée Lindorff, with Screen Australia’s online publication, Screen News. Before we start, I’d like to acknowledge the various countries you’re listening in from, the unceded lands of Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander people. This podcast has been created on the lands of the Gadigal people of the larger Eora Nation, the traditional custodians and first storytellers of this region. Always was, always will be.
Today we’re talking about YouTube and the appeal of online video content through the lens of Kids IP. Now according to the March 2025 NielsenTV and Streaming Snapshot, streaming platforms take up over 43.8% of the American TV market and notably YouTube is the leading streaming platform for TV viewing audiences. Uh yeah, you heard that right – over 12% of viewing audiences watch television using and that’s compared to 10% from just 12 months ago. And then if we look a little deeper, 84% of kids say YouTube is the main way they consume video content. Currently, YouTube has over 2.49 billion monthly active users. That’s a lot of potential viewers. So, it’s fair to say that the use of YouTube as a preferred platform, as a distributor, is growing as audiences’ appetite for stories and their viewing habits change. So, whether you’re producing documentary or scripted, whatever your demographic, there’s a lot to learn about audience behaviour, content generation and discoverability from how audiences engage with kids’ content on YouTube. Joining us today is digital strategy and production executive Nico Lockhart to share his insights into the world of online production and how to approach content and IP for online audiences. Nico was in Australia as guest of Screen Australia and the Australian Children’s Television Foundation for the Kids IP Incubator Initiative, supporting children’s online creators to develop Australian IP for digital platforms. Throughout the episode, Nico sets the scene for the current state of children’s online programming and shares his approach to content strategy for YouTube, including how to optimise the production workflow. Using analytics to identify what’s working and build your audience, creating what Nico calls legit bait instead of click bait and why YouTube is the perfect space to develop IP. Remember to subscribe to the Screen Australia newsletter for all the latest from the Australian screen industry and also subscribe to this podcast on iTunes, Spotify, or wherever you listen to podcasts. But now here’s production executive Nico Lockhart to talk about online content and YouTube.
Nico, welcome to the podcast.
[00:02:44] Nico Lockhart Thank you for having me. Yeah, it’s great to be here.
[00:02:46] Aimée Lindorff Delighted to have you. So, to get us started, can you tell us a bit about your background and your areas of interest?
[00:02:54] Nico Lockhart I’ve spent the last nine, ten, years in kids’ media, specifically the online space, so really producing things for YouTube, all with the vision of creating things for audience development and building fan engagement, IP building and potentially producing a quality that could be going to secondary platforms. But yeah, predominantly YouTube. I spent most of that time at Wildbrain. Where I worked on kind of Teletubbies. We rebooted Caillou, Strawberry Shortcake and many of other of their IPs, but also working kind of in more of that agency model. So, utilising the skills that we had as a team and working with, you know, Lego, Crayola, Spinmaster, Mattel – all the big toy and kids’ companies through that period of time and helping them bring their content to those platforms.
[00:03:50] Aimée Lindorff Was it predominantly established IP or was it a mix of established IP, repurposing existing brands and original content?
[00:03:57] Nico Lockhart Yeah, so that’s a great question. So, building original IP for the platform in mind was where you kind of got the easiest return because there was such an opportunity for flexibility through that creative and development process to build it for the platforms. We had some great successes with Teletubbies and Caillou and various other properties as well because they had that fan engagement and an audience kind of awareness already but it was really then kind of redeveloping them for YouTube. Even though we were repurposing old linear content and making it kind of, you know, cutting it and compiling it in different ways for the platform, we were also producing new and kind of redeveloping those IPs for the Platform in Mind.
[00:04:46] Aimée Lindorff Yeah right. And so what is your role now? What do you focus on?
[00:04:49] Nico Lockhart Right now, I’ve just set up my own studio, so really focusing on the full kind of strategy, creative development and, you know, potentially production as well. I think it’s a really interesting space, but I think its a really confused space and it’s also one that people are really unsure of how to get into. So, the intention with myself and my co-founders is really to guide people through that process and support that kind of, how do I take my IP, how do take my show to YouTube? And a lot of our perspective is really, you need to be making those creative choices early through your development, because YouTube is a little different in how consumers work with it. So, it’s just making creative decisions for your distribution platform in mind. We’ve always made creative decisions for distribution and consumption. Now it’s figuring it out again.
[00:05:46] Aimée Lindorff Talking about YouTube today, what is the appeal of the platform for both consumers or audiences and creators?
[00:05:54] Nico Lockhart I started watching YouTube in 2006, 2007, so it was really early on and it was when I started to see more than just cat videos in that era, I was wanting to watch people fall off their skateboards, but I started seeing creators come to the platform and talk about interesting topics and I started feeling like I was learning about different things and I found that really interesting and then I was kind of like lots of sketch comedy and parody comedy. A lot of those early days there was huge kind of some early businesses that were really seeing YouTube as the potential future. So, Maker Studios was full screen with these were the two kind of big ones in those early days. Also one in the UK called Channel Flip. That really sparked my interest on just going, oh, could this be the new thing? Could this be new TV? So, I was like, well, I’m enjoying this space. I’m starting to get connected to it just as a viewer. And then starting to be a creator as well, just for a very short period of time. But it made me really understand where this platform, these creators and how they were, I guess, kind of taking that control of their creativity, their IP, their potential. And some of them stayed as creators, some of the built businesses. And I think that that, again, that flexibility to kind of keep it small or make it really into something or launch into something else. I found that as just a really interesting and it just really sparked my engagement and my interest.
[00:07:25] Aimée Lindorff Yeah, such a level of agility there in terms of what you can get and what the outcomes can be. What would you say has changed about the media landscape that’s driving the popularity of online like YouTube?
[00:07:38] Nico Lockhart You know, to be honest, I think it’s always that thing of like, you could ask the question, like what shifts consumer habits in general, right? It’s when something’s a bit easier, when it’s free, when it is cheaper, or when it gives you something that you would like more. And I think that there is a combination of all of these things. So, I think its convenience, you know, it’s right there in your hands. It allows you to watch things on the go. It was one of those first platforms that really allowed content to be on the go, which was obviously kind of tapping into so younger audiences, which have now aged into kind of more, you know, middle generation audiences. And then what I’d say is, I think that it provided an authenticity that TV more and more wasn’t potentially providing formats where people felt connected in a kind of more. Disconnected online world. And so, I think that there was just a lot of different things that kind of came together at once and the cost of digital cameras dropped at certain points and then being able to pick up a camera and just make things and then be able to make money. From that, I think it just allowed creators to really feel empowered and then as an audience, you feel that passion and you feel the empowerment because you’re getting a kind of really a direct to customer, a direct to artist experience which is just really exciting and really, it feels really real. And whether that’s just kind of more of that low-fi kind of content or, you know, really what is now kind of fully produced programming. I think fully at that spectrum, there’s just feels, there’s a different vibe. And I think that that is, you get that feeling. And I that’s what people come to and that’s people want.
[00:09:23] Aimée Lindorff One of those myths when it comes to online content is that it’s a solo creator working on their own from their bedroom with not a lot of production, experience, producing videos for the internet. How would you say that has evolved over time?
[00:09:39] Nico Lockhart I’d say that, you know, that’s what YouTube is now, is just predominantly fully produced teams and small businesses and small studios producing shows. It’s not, the big volume of content isn’t just the kind of lo-fi people in their bedrooms. There’s a certain level of authenticity where people still film things in their bedroom, but it doesn’t mean that that’s actually the production team that’s behind the scenes, the writing, the time that goes into it. It isn’t. Like that anymore and it hasn’t been for a while. And it’s also just the ambition of the creators. A lot of the content that I see still being recorded in kind of bedrooms is someone who is maybe kind of doing pop journalism and things like that where actually the aesthetic and the style of feeling like you’re at somebody’s research desk, right? Where they have almost string maps pulling pieces together and things they’ve printed out and they’ve been researching online. Again, it’s feeling connected with their process, right? And getting that kind of peek behind the curtain rather than a polished set and things like that. And that then becomes part of the style, right. There’s actually probably 10 people off screen and whether that’s a writer, that’s researcher, that’s kind of consultant in the kind of topic that they’re researching, a lighting person, a sound person, you know, a composer, all these people offscreen. But yes, the set is still sort of their apartment because there’s no overheads or lower overheads. But also again, it just brings a different vibe to the content, but it’s actually highly produced and in some ways it’s produced to feel more lo-fi.
[00:11:22] Aimée Lindorff I love that point. You mentioned previously that kids content and IP has predominantly been the focus of your work. What would you say is the correlation between YouTube and kids content, and younger audiences?
[00:11:36] Nico Lockhart I think, again, it’s the viewers growing up as viewers, and then becoming parents, and then utilising it as a platform as they started to see kids’ content be there. It’s just that consumer habit. YouTube is turning 20 this year. This isn’t a new platform. It’s new in terms of maybe being taken seriously, and maybe it’s only really been taken seriously more recently. I don’t know, I think it’s been taken seriously by people who are in the space for at least a decade. Businesses are built on this platform. Businesses have built on the audiences that it creates. And I think that that’s kind of the mindset to have is it’s not always about, it’s the direct kind of production model or kind of series model. It is the business and IP build model. And that’s where it kind of, you really focus in on. But I think the ability to have such a diverse content, you know, accessible for audiences. You know, there’s a real mix of quality. I’m not gonna deny that. And I think that again, that’s what is really easy to go, no, I don’t want to play in this space. But actually my perspective is it’s our accountability and responsibility as producers to step onto this platform and produce really good stuff. But I would say that the thing that I’m really seeing is just the, yeah, the ability to access. Huge amounts of content, that is clearly delivering something to children through the eyes of the parent. It’s giving something to their kid that they’re not getting elsewhere, right? People don’t change consumer habits just for funsies. Like it’s because it provides them with something that does do something different. And yeah, that might be because it’s free and accessible, but it also might be because their kid’s really engaging with it and they’re really happy. there and these other platforms and traditional broadcasters don’t provide that. But I do think that there is clearly something, whether it’s good or it’s great or whatever you may personally think about it, it’s delivering something to the audience that they’re not getting elsewhere. And I think that that is something that we need to accept. And I’d think that again, if we’re looking at these platforms as where the audiences are, then we need too also embrace what are they getting there? Because that’s the question to me is more like, What is it that is being provided in these shows, right? And I think that that’s the thing that we need to be thinking about. And this goes across kids, this goes out of just kids. It’s providing something that is engaging in a way that maybe audiences aren’t being pulled in. There’s certain shows that still everyone will tune in to on traditional broadcasters in the UK, right, every week, certain brands and certain things that everyone does. But then when they’re not watching that, they’re going back to these other platforms. There’s something in that show that they are being drawn to, a traditional platform, but then the rest of the time, they’re being drawn back to the thing that is giving them something else, right? So, and I think this goes across all audiences and partly why we’re in the shifting place of where consumers are consuming. You know, they’ve not released a stat recently, but in 2019, they said that it was 500 hours of content being uploaded to the platform every minute. And to figure out how to look at all of that content at scale is really, really hard. On the other end of that, only 88% of content ever reaches over a thousand views. So, it’s really still only in that, it’s only 12% of the content that is really getting any sort of viewership. And I would say the significant viewership is in the top few percent of that really, because a thousand viewers isn’t a lot. But if you think of it at that scale, but it’s still then really hard to surface the good stuff, or on the flip side. Ensure that the not so good stuff doesn’t get surfaced. They’re making a lot of headway, you know, YouTube Kids app is much better than it was and they’re continuing to work hard at that.
[00:15:37] Aimée Lindorff Okay. Well, looking at the way audiences engage with kids’ content, what can we learn from what we’re seeing from kids online content and how can it be applied to broader demographics?
[00:15:49] Nico Lockhart The ways in which I approach storytelling, content development, all of these things, they’re no different from any other kind of person in the, you know, what would be called the creator economy. I think it’s, that underserves really and under delivers really what this industry is. Again, a creator just sounds kind of like a hopeful artist, butthese are business people who are filmmakers, you now, they’re directors, they’re producers, and they’re accessing massive audiences. And building huge studio businesses, you know, maybe not at the scale, but they have significant production companies of 10, 50, 100 people in their employment. So they’re not insignificant businesses at this point. What I would say is, yeah, I think it’s about understanding your audience, understanding what they’re wanting, understanding what they are already consuming. And I think then just trying to learn some lessons from that, not going in with the arrogance of, I’ve done this and I know this. Sometimes that’s hard, but actually there’s something different, clearly. And I think, again, embracing that, embracing packaging it and figuring out how to do that with the platform. Everyone looks at YouTube and goes, oh my God, look at those thumbnails. They’re just, they’re sensational, click-baity, nothing. But YouTube does reward what I call like legit bait, and that’s a really, that’s really cringy. It’s the way to think about it. It’s click bait into legit bait. And if you have click bait, you’re not actually gonna get surfaced. If you have content that people want to watch, the way I think about is you’re walking down a high street, you’ve got all these shops, some of them look good, some of are attractive to go in. And the ones that maybe will mislead you based off their window, you’re gonna stay in for very long. The ones that then are really interesting and really cool. You will spend a bit of time, you’ll browse, you’ll maybe sort of spend some money. And I think that that’s again how to think about it. That’s what YouTube is. You need to kind of window dress your content appropriately using those kind of marketing tactics and things like that. And yeah, people have a certain expectation. I think it is just about understanding the platform and embracing how audiences are consuming.
[00:18:06] Aimée Lindorff So, talking about that a little bit more about how to break through the noise and those 500 hours per minute uploads. What should producers know about discovery and about the YouTube model and the elusive algorithm that everyone talks about when it comes to YouTube?
[00:18:25] Nico Lockhart First of all, the algorithm is machine learning, right? So, what they’re saying is we want to satisfy viewers. We want to keep them engaged, keep them watching. Mystery, black box, machine learning. Do that, try that, try different things. And so it’s actually creators that have figured out how to make that work for them. YouTube know that it is just also about engaging audiences. Don’t think algorithm, think audience. They’ve built it to engage audiences. They’ve not built it to be this obstacle course of challenge for the sake of it. So, it’s just about, again, it’s engaging with how audiences consume. And I think that I can keep saying that and that just sounds like a nothing statement. It’s because it’s different for every audience and it’s about really learning. If you’re a TV producer, you’re probably watching TV. So, if you’re moving into this space, you need to be watching this content of all audiences and just understanding it. The good and the bad is structured very similarly, but one I like and one I don’t, one I’d feel good about sharing with my kid, one I wouldn’t. But actually, structurally it’s the same, right? So, it’s that thing of you’ve just got to watch, right, and that’s the thing. And it’s about how stories are told. It’s about the kind of surprise and delight that we all like through watching TV. It’s about how that’s delivered, and act structures are slightly different, potentially, but again, all of this is in the nuance of the audience that you want to watch. But yeah, discovery is hard, is what I would say. We’re seeing a lot of great shows getting cancelled after seasons one because they’re not kind of getting, and this is on streamers I’m talking about, because they are not being discovered through the kind of platform algorithms, and YouTube is similar in that But the thing that is great about YouTube is it’s a bit more, again, there’s a little bit more transparency in how it works in terms of just because there’s so many creators on the platform who are then in control of their own destiny rather than producers who are in the control of a platform’s algorithm. Whereas there’s various different things that you can do. And I think understanding how suggested traffic works, if you think about when programming was… we have a hit show. We’re gonna put it at the prime-time slot. We’ve got this new show that audiences might like and we’ll either put it a little bit before, a little but afterwards. That’s how discovery would work before in many ways. Just from a very simple perspective and the reason I articulate it in that way is because that’s what YouTube’s doing. It’s going, here’s some content. Is it kind of similar? We’ll put it in the bar, the YouTube suggested video bar next to it. And hopefully people will find something else they like. And understanding maybe some of the themes, the stories, the subject matters that are being talked about, that will help you a lot get discovered because you’ll then get served next to similar content. And that doesn’t mean copying, but it means going through the process of understanding what are the kind of things that come up a lot. And it’s no different from when you make a kind of a preschool show. There’s always a kind of new friend at school episode or there’s a birthday party episode. There’re these themes that come up and people always say, well, that sitcom episode, copied that theme, it’s just because these are universal themes that people like and like to see stories about. And it’s understanding the themes and stories that people liked and that will just really, really help you. And I think if you don’t do that, you will have a longer road to success. And it’s not that you won’t, but I think we’re in a climate where there isn’t the kind of patience, unfortunately, in general across content, but especially not with the kind of sadly misunderstanding of YouTube as an overnight success, specifically within the kids’ space. Obviously, people tend to be quite familiar with Cocomelon, but it’s been on the platform for 18 years.
[00:22:48] Aimée Lindorff It’s phenomenal.
[00:22:51] Nico Lockhart You can get success within a year or two but you’re also talking about these things that have been on the platform for a long, long time. They’re not new to the platform and that’s because they’ve iterated, they’ve learned, they’re changed. If I show you the content that that channel was making 18 years ago you wouldn’t know it was Cocomelon because it didn’t have the characters that Cocomelon had today. They did songs and they did have a different animation style. It was 2D, it was illustrative, and now it’s a toddler and baby character set in 3D. It’s a change to the property because they’ve iterated and learned, and it’s one that a lot of people have heard of, so it’s good, easy entry point, but it’s also been on the platform for a long time. Doesn’t mean you have to wait, like, be on the platforms for 18 years, but you need to wait more than three to six months, and I’ve seen shows cancelled because they weren’t. Getting kind of virality and discovery within three to six months. You know, it’s a 12, 18, 24-month road to having a good, sustainable YouTube channel. And that is hard, but that’s a couple of seasons, right? And that’s often the road for a successful TV show is you need to see a bit of that growth. Hopefully you’ll get a bit of that grow within the six to 12 months. And then, you know, the kind of more 18 to 24 is when you start to see significant continued trajectory. But it’s that thing of, you will see good signs, but you’re not gonna have overnight success. That’s not what the platform is. You might get one that gets picked up and goes a little bit viral and gets supported in suggested traffic. But that doesn’t mean that then every video from there will. You will have this kind of like wave of riding success where it goes up and you’ll get a kind of couple of videos really kind of in the algorithm and supported through suggested traffic and then it will drop down to just kind of what you were, but it will be a little higher. So, it will kind of go in this wave. You know, it’s a bit of a roller coaster.
[00:24:56] Aimée Lindorff I’m glad you mentioned that because I think there’s a bit of a misconception that you get that one hit video and then suddenly the channel’s successful. But it is a case of continuing to output content and not relying on that one hit video to kind of ride the wave, as you said.
[00:25:11] Nico Lockhart For sure, I have seen channels put content out in a more sporadic manner and do okay, but it’s not gonna build a brand. It’s not going to build a property. And you’re not going build that sustained audience. And I think that that is what’s really key if that is your objective. You have to then figure out a pipeline that works for you really starting with what I call, and this phrase comes from more from like the tech industry, but it’s thinking about your minimum viable product. Well, I just think about that as the heart of your show, right, what are your non-negotiables? What are the things that are really, really important to your show? And what are the thing that are like, where you want to spend your money? And then building upon that, and again, I use an analogy that’s a bit like, if you’re gonna bake a really good cake, don’t just like throw loads of. Pretty icing on the top of it, like make sure that like sponge is really good, you know? Like that’s the heart of your cake, that’s a heart of show. This is what, it’s kind of obvious and it sounds like, but the amount of producers I work with that don’t think about that and they kind of pretty up by adding ideas to their idea rather than just having a really good idea to start with and a really kind of focused in proposition that the audience will fall in love with. That’s I think the thing that sometimes gets missed.
[00:26:34] Aimée Lindorff You mentioned Cocomelon as an example, that iteration and change over time as they respond to audience, that’s coming through things like metrics and viewing data and audience behaviour. For a lot of people that seems a bit impenetrable. Can you talk us through some of the stuff that you can use to help inform those changes and help inform the direction of your channel or content?
[00:26:58] Nico Lockhart For sure. So, you know, obviously mentioned a little bit about discovery and selecting things that, you may already be interesting to your audience. That’s just one thing of the starting point that will kind of lead to just kind of being served and building impressions and then you get something called a kind of click through rate, which is about how successful your thumbnail is. Then you get various different other stats like an average view duration and an average percentage. These two things that again, you need to figure out the right relationship between, but really that’s just about how long people are watching your content. And you get this amazing graph, which basically shows your viewership decay over an episode. And it’s a really great way to just dig in.
[00:27:45] Aimée Lindorff Viewer decay is such an interesting one to see where you lose them in your format so that you can potentially adjust that structure going forward.
[00:27:52] Nico Lockhart Exactly that. That’s why I’d say it’s like a good place to start. Because it needs to be contextualised. A long time ago I made a mini doc about a friend who’s a skateboarder and an artist. And I had a big peak of interest around some of the really good, amazing skateboarding tricks he was doing. So, I could take that data point and go, well, I just need to make loads of clips of skateboarding. But the purpose of my show and that episode was not escape video. Talking through how skateboarding was an entry point to him finding himself as an artist. So, contextually, I might go, from a surface perspective, I should put more skateboarding in my videos. Yeah, maybe. But I could also say, okay, well, maybe action shots. Maybe things where you’re seeing him do something. And I think that there’s other ways to look at it. But you’ve got to put it, contextualise it. And I think that that’s really, really important and something that people get lost over, but also flat is really good. You can get peaks, but also just having a really flat line means people just are enjoying it.
[00:29:03] Aimée Lindorff And they’re consistently engaged. It’s not jumping out every so often, it’s they’re watching, they’re sitting down and watching.
[00:29:10] Nico Lockhart Exactly, and I think that again, contextualising it, understanding it, looking at it across your different episodes, it’s a place to reflect and it’s really just about if you were to continuously get the same note from one of your EPs or you would think about changing. I mean, it’s the same thing, just looking at retention is a really good place to start because I think it empowers creatives to understand their audiences further. The key thing is to make sure you’re getting to the audience you intend, which again is really down to that discoverability, doing a bit of research, really understanding what people are watching within your intended demographic. But I think that there’s a lot of jargon for sure, but all it really means is discovery is about you know, making sure you’re getting programmed appropriately. There’s lots of people trying to demystify those out online. There’s a kind of amazing duo of, of creator economy commentators called Colin and Samir. I would really just recommend listening to them. And they talk to a lot of people in this space and super smart guys. And again, really engage with people who are again, really doing well in this place from a business perspective. And that’s a really good place to start.
[00:30:23] Aimée Lindorff You were talking about that change in iteration again, but one of the big things about content with audience is also managing expectation and consistency. So, what do you do if you see something’s not working or if you see some of those elements just aren’t meshing for your audience? How quickly should you be pivoting and, and should you pivot or should you abandon all hope and abandon the channel and start again?
[00:30:47] Nico Lockhart I think there’s a few things there, is that not every show is successful, right, and that’s always been the case. So, I think that you can set a lot of this stuff up, but often, yeah, like sometimes a show is, there’s like a gap in the market, sometimes it’s oversaturated, sometimes your idea just isn’t being communicated quite right. There’s lots of different things. You should have a flexible format, and designing flexible formats where there’s space…putting a little bit of budget aside to ensure that you can do that. And knowing if your show just isn’t a success, there is probably a cut-off point. But I think that, again, if you do your research up front and understand if there’s appetite, that’s the thing to do. YouTube’s there, right? It’s not like before where you probably had to look through a TV guide or speak to all the broadcasters of, like, are there gaps? YouTube’s a search bar, and you can go find it and, you know, take that responsibility on. Just take those learnings where you can, you know obviously we’re talking a little bit about the the data points, feeding those through your production process. You know, it’s not always an immediate return, but we’ve made seasons in the past where you know we did a 52-episode order and we were applying data through that pipeline because we spread out the writing, we timed the production schedule, we pulled it around and pulled those phasers into different places. Where you could then, you could be more adaptable, right? And we figured out what our minimal viable product was so we could get into pre-production a little bit before getting into like deep writing, but then also spread writing further out through the process. And it’s just about thinking about it a little but differently and understanding that. And then we were starting to take those, you know,let’s say the first 10 to 15 episodes learnings and applying that to them from 30 episodes in. So, about the last 20 to 15 episodes – you can do it within a season. It depends on your pipeline, but I would say designing a pipeline with that space is really key up front. You hear fix it in post, you hear fix in pre, I’d say fix it strategy. Get it right up front, research, understand, design a pipeline, allow flexibility. The sitcom model of just like, you know, you have your kind of big. Of your big episodes, which are on location, and then you have your bottle episodes that are like just within the core sets or even one set. I think those are, again, really kind of interesting ways to look at production again and pick those kinds of approaches back up.
[00:33:30] Aimée Lindorff I’m almost reminded of soap opera or long-term drama formats where you do have 22 episodes, what used to be 22 episodes and you have that capacity to pivot some of those story points in response to what you’re seeing and the feedback you’re getting on an ongoing basis throughout the season. And it’s that just almost on a shorter, shorter model or smaller model.
[00:33:52] Nico Lockhart It’s exactly the same. Instead of hearing the scuttlebug or having people write in, you just get that real-time data, but it’s exactly that. And I think that that again is, thank you for providing me with another example of how producers have done all of this stuff before. We’ve just been in this like weird middle ground where streamers have allowed different types of stories and starting at episode one, season one, all the way through allows you to tell deeper, richer stories Then that takes kind of more time and consideration and there’s still going to be spaces and audience demand for that. But then YouTube is that other type of consumer demand and I think that it is exactly what you just said. It’s no different from stuff we’ve done before. It’s just thinking about it a little bit differently and there is still some refinement in your approach but it actually allows even more detailed information and rather than just people that are speaking the loudest, it actually gives you the information on everyone. And that’s awesome.
[00:34:56] Aimée Lindorff That is fantastic. And talking about the things that we’ve already done before, I think one of the biggest hesitations we’ve heard from the industry is there’s concerns about monetization and the funding of content for online. If production companies aren’t pitching to commissioners or broadcasters, how does the content get made? Particularly at development, where does that money come from?
[00:35:17] Nico Lockhart Yeah, and it’s a great question. And I think there’s a few different things here is one, potentially more commissioners of funding bodies, broadcasters need to be funding for this space. Like that’s my perspective. I think that needs to be more collaboration potentially between the platforms and broadcaster. So, you know, that’s definitely one thing. But again, we’re not there yet. So, again, kind of me saying that doesn’t really help. But I would say that…well, the way I look at YouTube is you are kind of approaching it more like a startup. So, your property and your series for YouTube potentially needs to be more of an IP model.
[00:36:04] Aimée Lindorff Right, so using existing IP.
[00:36:06] Nico Lockhart Well, not necessarily using existing. I more mean it needs to be pulled in a few different directions. So, it’s not just a show, it’s an IP. So, potentially, maybe I’m talking within the kind of headspace of kids, but potentially games, potentially toys, potentially products, potentially other revenue streams that allow people to really embrace this as an IP, so if you think about your favourite brand or IP, it’s more than just a Show. That’s where YouTube really sings and allows you to kind of really engage in an audience. And then if you were to have a startup where you were having a product, which again is expressed through content, maybe you would go to investors, maybe you’d go to private equity, maybe there’s a lot of different approaches there. There’s definitely hesitation in this space, so I’m not saying that that’s an easy win. But if you’re pitching to a broadcaster, you’ve got to just find somebody else to pitch to get that money. Initially for the upfront cost. But that’s also why I say, start with your minimal viable product because you have to kind of keep it low and tight and simple to start with. And that is the kind of required approach on YouTube. You can then build and grow. And I’ve had series where it’s just like two characters, like no backgrounds, it was an imagination type kind of focus, had lots of props. So, I’m talking about in the animated space, but then we grew it. What we then built was kind of this iterative model. And you started small with, yeah, no backgrounds and just props and kind of really good jokes and comedy and story. And then kind of built on that. And now some of the most recent episodes have, you know, six characters and full backgrounds and things like that, because we learned what the audience was wanting. But again, through expressing it through stories and just then tying it through discovery. That show is called Boy in Dragon. So, again, if you want to go check that out, absolutely do. And if you go back and watch some of the early episodes to some of new episodes, you can see the scale of production has changed.
[00:38:11] Aimée Lindorff For something that’s more live action or scripted, if you’ve got, say, premium producers looking to expand into the online space, how can they use that kind of low scale to high scale model?
[00:38:24] Nico Lockhart I think I would throw it back to what is quality. There’s plenty of kind of lower cost shows that deliver fantastic audiences and there’s also kind of low budget productions that look beautiful because they do the thing that they’re wanting to do really well and they kind of don’t worry about the other stuff and that’s because they’ve just focused in on what they’re really good at and what that they can then do kind of quickly, easily and cheaply. Because they’re not making it over encumbered. If you’re going in with a highly, a big premium product from the get-go, maybe YouTube isn’t the right place for it. But I think if it’s a space where you can build an IP and you’re building something small to start with, I think it’s focusing in on what is your quality. Like is it your acting performances? Is it the more the cinematography? Is it the set design or the costume design, the production design? Thinking about what’s going to be really important and then scaling back on the other things, creating efficiency elsewhere. And that’s why I think you need to make these decisions at development, rather than just when you’re asking for money for your show that’s been structured for maybe a potentially more traditional platform. Maybe that’s not right for all shows and all projects. So, I don’t think that YouTube is going to be perfect and right for all projects, but nor is TV, nor is radio, nor as film. We all select the medium and distribution that’s right for the story. And I think that there may be plenty of people who are listening that are like, ah, this guy’s not telling me how to make my feature film monetize and really good for YouTube. Maybe it’s not right for YouTube, that’s okay. Like that’s okay, right, like I’m not saying that YouTube’s going to solve all of the things that are going on in the industry. I think it has a place alongside and as an amazing entry point for both experienced and new people. And I think is an amazing place to learn your craft, but I also think it’s an amazing place to access audiences through experienced storytelling. And actually, the platform is really, really wanting experience storytelling. But again, that’s also why there’s probably a reception of, oh, it’s very amateur. So, like, well, let’s jump on there, right? Let’s tell these amazing stories. You maybe do just need to think about it a little bit differently. And I think structuring these shows through understanding how monetization works, it is an ad-based model, potentially brand integrations, and there’s lots of different ways to build revenue stream. YouTube has a lot of ability, you can have Patreons off-platform. You can have memberships on YouTube…there’s plenty of revenue streams there, you just have to then engage with the platform on how to maximise that and think about what’s right for your show, your property. I should have probably said this a little bit more up front, but it’s about production, distribution, franchise build. It’s about all of these things working more as one. And I think to me it’s about these things kind of really coming hand in hand. Creative and programming, production and distribution, these things need to work much more hand in and if you’re not an expert in that, there are people who are.
[00:41:54] Aimée Lindorff Thank you so much for your time. Now, before you go, do you have any advice for producers looking to explore YouTube either as an IP generator or generally?
[00:42:04] Nico Lockhart One of my biggest kind of points of advice is understanding more parts of the process and it being that the phrase D2C, direct to consumer, but it is really a direct to audience, direct to however you want to think about it, you’ve got to understand all the pieces of that. And so, where there’s plenty of these very successful D2c companies that understand their product, their supply chain. Are they a customer? They understand what their customer wants. That’s what you need to start to learn. And that is hard. And building that knowledge is time consuming. But you can also work with people who already know that. So, it’s about this more village-like approach of coming together to build something with lots of different skill sets and sharing this information and working together. For that long-term objective. Where before you were maybe, you just had a piece of it, and you also just wore the one hat and you only had one element of control. You do need to take on the other kind of further accountability, but it means that you get to have control across the whole pipeline. So, you are the creator, you are producer, but you’re also the programmer, you’re the distributor and then you’re kind of the franchise owner, the brand owner. You are a startup, you’re not just a producer. Having and understanding all of those parts is really important. And it’s all about creativity and programming coming together and you taking ownership of all of that. That’s so empowering. If you can utilise that, it’s such an exciting place to be because you get that real-time data, you can implement that into your plan. You can implement into your strategy live. Like, I feel like, aren’t we all here to make things that the audiences want? And then getting that feedback and seeing that passion and enjoyment and seeing people become, you know, turn, something I always say is like turning eyeballs into audiences, audiences into fans and fans into customers. That pipeline of processes is what you get to control on YouTube. And that is really fun. And that’s really exciting. I would say just experiment, you open up YouTube, type in a topic that you’re really passionate about. Learn about that and go look at something you’re really interested in and like find a creator that you think is really interesting. Whether that’s sports, tech, film reviews, yes, like there’s a full range of different people making content and embracing the platform in different ways, but just watch. Just see what they’re doing. Understand the way in which they structure their storytelling because they’re really thinking about this. They’re really considering how they structure their stories, how they structure their packaging, how the articulate their whole show and their whole episode within just a thumbnail. To be successful on the platform you have to do all of that and it’s a real craft so just go watch and I think that that’s the best place to start.
[00:45:20] Aimée Lindorff Well, thanks again for joining us, Nico.
[00:45:22] Nico Lockhart Thank you for having me, it’s been awesome and I appreciate it.
[00:45:26] Aimée Lindorff Thanks to Nico Lockhart for joining us. To find out more about the trends and opportunities in children’s content on YouTube, check out the show notes for more information. Now, don’t forget to rate and review this episode through Spotify and iTunes and subscribe to Screen Australia’s Fortnightly e-newsletter for the latest industry news, opportunities and more. Thanks for listening.
