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Podcast – Cian O’Clery: making Love on the Spectrum

Director Cian O’Clery on his unconventional path to documentary through to co-creating Love on the Spectrum – an original Australian concept that’s being watched across the globe.

Still from Love on the Spectrum spliced with Cian O'Clery's headshot.

Love on the Spectrum, Cian O'Clery

Find this episode of the Screen Australia Podcast on iTunes, SpotifyStitcher or Pocket Casts

It was while working as a driver on the Matrix sequels that Cian O’Clery had a revelation.

“I remember sitting in my car and just thinking, ‘what am I doing?' I must have been in my thirties by then and I was thinking, I need to make a decision and try to push towards something I want to do. And I thought ‘I'd really love to make documentaries’.”

On the latest episode of the Screen Australia podcast, O’Clery talks about how proactively shooting behind-the-scenes footage while working as Baz Luhrmann's driver on Australia led to a shooter-producer role in reality TV, which in turn opened the door to his big break in factual television – directing ABC series Changing Minds: The Inside Story for Northern Pictures.

It was while working at Northern Pictures that he and Head of Factual Karina Holden would come up with the concept for Love on the Spectrum, a docuseries that The Sydney Morning Herald called “the dating show that rewrites the rules” and “creates sensational TV in the process.” The series, which has two seasons commissioned for the ABC, follows young adults on the autism spectrum as they search for love. It’s also gone global, with Season 1 now available on Netflix, and the series winning two prizes at the 2021 Realscreen Awards as well as a Rockie Award at the Banff World Media Festival.

O’Clery recognises that having the support of local funding agencies and broadcasters is significant for a project like Love on the Spectrum.

“As everyone in the Australian industry knows, it's not easy to get a show made, especially not an original concept. It's easy to remake UK formats or US formats or things that have been proven and it's not so easy to take a risk on something.”

Throughout the episode, O’Clery explains his approach to creating Love on the Spectrum, including stylistic choices, how many cameras were used, shooting schedules and their goals for the second season, following the success of the first.

In the end, he hopes Love on the Spectrum goes some way to changing the perception that autism only presents one way.

“The initial kernel of the idea was about raising awareness that people on the spectrum do want to date and want to have relationships just like everybody else does, but as we make the show and as we've made the second series, it becomes about showing the true diversity of the spectrum,” he says.

“You've got people with very low support needs who are highly intelligent, who have great jobs, who are professors, and you've got people who need support 24 hours a day… It's really diverse. Everybody's different.”

Watch Season 1 and 2 of Love on the Spectrum on ABC iview now. Season 1 is also available on Netflix.

Subscribe to Screen Australia Podcast on iTunes, SpotifyStitcher or Pocket Casts

Audio Transcript

[00:00:05] Caris Bizzaca Welcome to the Screen Australia podcast, I'm Caris Bizzaca, a journalist with Screen Australia's online publication Screen News. On this episode of the podcast, we are joined by Cian O'Clery, the director of both aeasons of Love on the Spectrum, a heartwarming documentary series that follows young adults on the autism spectrum as they search for love. The format was created by Cian and Karina Holden, the head of factual at production company Northern Pitctures, with both seasons commissioned for ABC and season one going global after a deal was struck with Netflix. It's been called by The Sydney Morning Herald as "a dating show that rewrites the rules" and "creates sensational TV in the process". And it has also been recognised globally, winning two prizes at the 2021 Realscreen Awards, as well as recently winning a Rockie award at the Banff World Media Festival. Throughout the podcast, Cian talks about his unconventional road to documentary making from being a driver on films like The Matrix sequels and Australia to finding his way into reality television and then getting his big break in factual TV through the support of Karina Holden and Northern Pictures who he's worked with since. Cian also breaks down his approach to making a documentary series such as Love on the Spectrum, including stylistic choices, how many cameras were used, shooting schedules and balancing being a director while also being a support person for the participants in the series as they navigate some challenging moments on screen. If you want to catch every new episode of the Screen Australia podcast as they release, remember to subscribe through places like iTunes and Spotify. If you have any feedback or questions, send an email to [email protected]. au . And for the latest articles, videos, funding announcements and more, you can also subscribe to Screen Australia's e-newsletter which we send out once a fortnight. Now, without further ado, he is keen to Cian O'Clery, the director and co-creator of Love on the Spectrum. 

[00:02:09] Caris Bizzaca Well, first of all, can you tell me a bit about your background in the industry and some of the projects that you've worked across? 

[00:02:15] Cian O'Clery I grew up in Canberra. I grew up in a little village outside Canberra and went to school in Canberra, you know, born in the 70s, going to school through the 80s-90s in Canberra, I didn't know that working in this industry was an option. I didn't really, I'd never even thought about it, it hadn't even crossed my mind. So I went to university for a year, studied industrial design and decided I didn't want to design fridges for the rest of my life, so I went travelling. I was working in a hotel in England and a film crew stayed there and they were filming like a TV version of The Prince and the Pauper. And I got to know them a little bit. And the producer of that said to me, 'hey, do you want to come and see the set? Do you want to come and visit?' And I said, 'yeah, that'd be great. I'd love to.' So he took me out and I saw the set and it was the first time I'd really even seen that people work and make this stuff, and films and TV - there's people working in this industry. And that guy who took me out there was actually Julian Fellowes. He created Gosford Park and Downton Abbey. 

[00:03:24] Caris Bizzaca Just a few small projects.

[00:03:26] Cian O'Clery Yeah, so he's huge now. But back in the day, he was just kind of producing this kids show. So, yeah, it was from going to that set and just saying that it looked like fun and that telling stories sounded like something that I would like to do, that I decided 'right, I'm going to work in the industry and I'm going to go back to Australia and I'm not going to do any work until I get a job on a film'. So I came back home. I'm in Canberra. I'm from this family that doesn't have any connections in the film industry at all. I'm not from a wealthy background, so I just hassled and hassled and hassled and I hassled so many people. And finally, someone gave me a job as a production runner on Moby Dick, which was being filmed in Melbourne, it was like a big twenty million dollar telly movie version of Moby Dick. And from there I kind of just worked production running on big shows, big films. I was a cat trainer on Babe 2. That was a very interesting job. You know, when it's three o'clock in the morning and the film's on night shoots and you're training a cat and you're in the same shed as the ducks and the dogs. And there's someone trying to get a duck to run under their dress in the other corner of the shed. And it's 3:00 in the morning and you're thinking, 'what am I doing with my life?' But it was fun. It was really interesting. And then, yeah, worked on lots of big projects like I worked on Star Wars when it filmed in Sydney. I worked on Matrix two and three, but was doing non-creative assistant type jobs. I did a lot of jobs as a driver and I remember specifically the day I was working on Matrix two and three and I was sitting in my car. We had fancy cars, you know, because we used to drive the actors to work. And I remember sitting in my car and just thinking, 'oh, God, what am I doing?' I mean, I must have been in my thirties by then. And I was thinking, I really need to do something and make a decision and try and push towards something I want to do. And I thought I'd really love to make documentaries. And I remember that day because I think that was the day my attitude really changed. And I thought, I've got to try and do something about this and and try and find myself a career. I think my last job working on a big feature film was on Australia by Baz Luhrmann - I was his driver. And while I was working for him and driving him to and from set and, you know, around set, when we're filming out in the middle of nowhere, we had a camera that I used to pick up and just start filming a lot of behind the scenes footage. And that footage because I was working with Baz and I was kind of in that team and was able to get close to the action, there was a lot of really great stuff in there, which a lot of it was used for the EPK and internationally broadcast on different platforms. And I actually cut together a reel from the footage I shot then. And that is how someone in the reality TV world gave me a job as a shooter-producer on Dancing with the Stars. So that was like my transition from working in kind of minor small assistant roles on films to actually more creative roles in television. Filming behind the scenes on Australia and then shifting over to shooter-producing on Dancing with the Stars was kind of the transition to, I guess, producing and directing in the world of reality TV, which is where I worked for quite a few years and just really had to learn really quickly because I didn't have a lot of experience in the world of reality TV and documentaries. I guess in any factual televisio the path is generally you kind of be a runner, then a PA and then you'd be an assistant producer or a researcher then associate producer, then maybe a junior producer, then a producer. And I kind of got thrown in as a producer. So I had to learn really quickly what I was doing and try to figure it all out, but just kind of went from there and worked on a lot of shows. Anything from Farmer Wants a Wife to Wife Swap to Married at First Sight. So yeah, it was good. And it's actually really helpful working in reality TV because it really teaches you how to tell stories and the way that schedules are, and the way that filming works on those kind of shows is that you have to tell stories. You know, you can't just film and film and hope that something happens and you have to kind of try and craft things. So it's a really good learning experience, even though it's not really where I want to be or wanted to be. But it was really useful and really helpful in terms of learning how to tell stories, because at the end of the day, it's all storytelling, isn't it? 

[00:08:13] Caris Bizzaca Hmm. And so then how did you get into directing for documentary? 

[00:08:18] Cian O'Clery Well, so I was working on a reality dating show and one of the post-producers saw how I dealt with somebody who was one of the participants who was having a very hard time with her mental health. And that person who was post-producing ended up working on a series about mental health and asked me to come in and meet them about potentially directing it. And that was Changing Minds, which was made for the ABC. So that was really the first time I had directed anything in terms of a whole episode, let alone a whole series. So that was a three part series for ABC observational documentary filmed inside a mental health unit. And quite a, I guess, a tough one to start out as the first thing you've done in that space, but it was really, really interesting, rewarding experience. And the series did well and people responded to it. And I guess things went from there. 

[00:09:25] Caris Bizzaca And so that was your first project working with Northern Pitctures was it, the production company? 

[00:09:30] Cian O'Clery Yeah, it was, yeah. With Katrina Holden as EP, who's been a great leader. 

[00:09:35] Caris Bizzaca And so since then, with Northern Pictures, so changing minds and then two seasons of Employable Me and Two Seasons of Love on the Spectrum. Is that correct?

[00:09:45] Cian O'Clery Yes. Yes. So yeah, I've done six series with them now as well as the one-off film Wild Australia: After the Fires, which was for ABC that was following rehabilitation efforts after the bushfires. 

[00:10:00] Caris Bizzaca And, you know, so there is two seasons of Love on the Spectrum. For anyone that hasn't seen it yet. could you tell me what it's about? 

[00:10:07] Cian O'Clery OK, so Love on the Spectrum is a series. I call it a docu series because we're basically a character-based story, telling stories of people on the autism spectrum, exploring the world of dating relationships, which can mean anything from people stepping out on their first ever date to the stories of couples who have already met and and are making things work and are right for each other and possibly leading up to important moments in their relationship, which are in series one and series two. And the idea of the series came from working on previous series with people with disabilities and during that process met lots and lots of young adults on the spectrum as well as the fact that a lot of them were looking for work - and there is underemployment within the autistic community - a lot of people were telling us... we were getting to know these people really well and finding out about what their hopes and dreams were in life in general and it just kept coming up that people really wanted to find love. And it seemed like there wasn't a lot of support out there to help. Some people on the spectrum don't need any help in that regard, but some people do. And a lot of the people that we met and spoke to who really wanted to find somebody and were finding it really hard, it just, I don't know, it just felt like there was something to explore there and a story to tell. And I guess the example I always give is Mark, who's in both series one and series two, you know, when we started filming with Mark, you know, he was twenty nine and having a partner, it's one of the most important things for him in life. And he's twenty nine years old and had never ever been on a date, you know. So to me that says that there needs to be more support for people like Mark. And I guess that was really where the idea came from. It all started there. We developed it with help from Screen Australia so that was really great to get that support early on and Screen Australia were one of the first believers in it. Of course ABC came on board and ended up funding the series, which was also great. As you know, and as everyone in the Australian industry knows, it's not easy to get a show made, especially not an original concept. It's easy to remake UK formats or US formats or things that have been proven and it's not so easy to take a risk on something. And so we were really glad that they did. And hopefully it's for the better. Hopefully people have really enjoyed it. And I hope that we've helped raise awareness about the spectrum and that the main thing about the series, I mean, the initial kernel of the idea was about raising awareness about the fact that people on the spectrum do want to date and want to have relationships just like everybody else does. But I guess as we make the show more and more and as we've made the second series, it becomes about showing the true diversity of the spectrum. It's really diverse. Everybody's different. You've got people with very low support needs who are highly intelligent, who have great jobs, who are professors, and you've got people who need support 24 hours a day. So I think that's really important and that's really a great opportunity to be able to share these people's real life stories and to introduce people to real people. When you compare it to, I guess, representation in drama, people would say, 'oh, I'm frustrated by The Good Doctor, or I'm frustrated by Big Bang Theory, because there will be one character in one of those series who is on the spectrum, and therefore greater society tends to latch onto that and think, 'oh, that's what autism means'. 

[00:13:59] Caris Bizzaca That's the representation of the whole spectrum when it's not. 

[00:14:02] Cian O'Clery Yeah. So, you know, back in the day it was Rain Man. Rain Man was the first big, I guess, widely seen representation of autism. And for a long time, people still I'm sure, say to people with autism, oh you count cards do you? And that's not to say that dramas and shows shouldn't have characters on the spectrum, but a diversity of that presentation is really important, I think, just to help people understand. There's just as much diversity in people on spectrum as there is with neurotypicals. 

[00:14:34] Caris Bizzaca Mm. And, you know, with the style of Love on the Spectrum. So it kind of has the observational quality, but intercut with people being interviewed down the barrel of the camera. What do you like about this style? 

[00:14:49] Cian O'Clery Well, I mean, that's what we call the master interviews where we have someone sitting in their room telling us their story. And I think that's, I guess, part of wanting to have people tell their own stories and tell their own experiences. And by filming those interviews where they are looking straight down the barrel, that's just a great way of connecting with the audience. I mean, a lot of shows use that now. And of course, they're not looking at the camera. They're looking at me in a mirror through the camera. But it just feels like a faster way to connect with somebody. And we generally use those master interviews before a scene or after a scene, but we don't ever use them to drive the scenes. I guess I'm getting into like, you know, the structure of our show. So a lot of reality shows, scenes will be driven by interviews. So what they'll do is they'll film, I don't know, somebody's cooking a cake. And the whole scene is driven by the person saying, and then I put the cake in the oven and then the cake didn't cook enough. And then I was really upset. And so they'll film all of the actuality first and then go back and write down all the things I need to ask in an interview to then drive that scene. And I mean, it's tough, you know, and then that these people are having to sit there doing interviews until all hours of the night to talk about what's happened. 

[00:16:14] Caris Bizzaca Reliving the moments that have already been filmed. 

[00:16:18] Cian O'Clery Yeah, yeah, yeah. And you know, for us it just feels more like documentary storytelling to let the scenes tell themselves and let the scenes happen and only use those master interviews before or after and not during, which is actually quite difficult sometimes. So we just have to make sure that the scenes can work on their own. 

[00:16:41] Caris Bizzaca Yeah, because there are parts of the series where, you know, people on camera will actually defer to you. You know, for example, there's that moment in season one where one of Michael's dates isn't going so well and he actually says, 'Cian, did I go too far?' Or, you know, there are times when your reassuring people who might be uncomfortable in a situation or saying, 'do you need a break?' Like how do you balance being a director, but also being a support person in some pretty intimidating situations? 

[00:17:17] Cian O'Clery Look, I think I just have to use your gut instinct as to if you feel like someone's feeling a bit overwhelmed or feeling stressed and allowing them to step away if they want to. I mean we do make that clear from day one. We make it clear to people... I guess the saying we have is 'we're filming this show on your terms. We're not filming it on our terms.' And that's kind of how we operate, not just in terms of when we're actually filming, but even in terms of planning it. You know, it's not like, 'hey, we need you to be available on Tuesday and we're going to film all day'. It's kind of like, 'hey, when can you do this and when will work for you?' And yeah, just trying to work around people's schedules and make it, I guess, as positive an experience as we can. We're still making a show. We still have to make a TV series and we still have to get stories happening. But we try and make it really clear that any time people want to say time out or want to stop or want to have a break, that they can always let me know. 

[00:18:19] Caris Bizzaca And like with that in mind, like, how long do you actually film for a season? Like, is there a time spent getting to know these people that you're going to be talking to? And then how long is the actual season filmed across? 

[00:18:34] Cian O'Clery What we do is we have a longer shooting period, but we shoot less days a week so we don't shoot full time. So we'll only probably shoot two or three days a week on average over a longer shooting period rather than doing full days, five days a week over a short period. So that just gives us the flexibility to work around people's schedules and to not overwhelm them. And also, it just helps me and the team to be able to always have time to gather together and work things out and find out where we're at and to allow things to happen and develop naturally and to tell those stories in the best way, rather than having to, I guess, decide beforehand what they might be. You know, it's giving us the flexibility. So in terms of a production model, it works for us. It's harder sometimes for the crew because we can't guarantee them full time work. And it is important for us to have the same camera and sound all the time. It's important for us to have consistency just for the participants to feel comfortable. So, we find great people who are open to that and and everybody works together to make it work in that sort of model. And we have our great APs as well who, they kind of are the main person who looks after the participant who's always there every time we film with him. And is the person they can call any time of day to say hi or let them know if they're having any issues. And yeah, we've just got, I guess, a way of working that we've sort of been using for the last four series now, I guess. Similar kind of methodology to to the other shows we were making before Love on the Spectrum. 

[00:20:15] Caris Bizzaca And with those shoot dates, how many cameras are you using to capture that? You know, it looks like maybe three...? 

[00:20:25] Cian O'Clery Three! I'm so glad you think it's three cameras, Caris. That makes me feel good. It's two. It's basically, we're a tiny tiny crew, so it's me, DOP, sound and an AP. That's it. And so I shoot second camera as well as directing. So it keeps us really small and nimble. It makes my job a little stressful at times, but it just really works in terms of being able to create content that feels real and kind of has the lowest footprint and impact on the people we're filming. 

[00:20:59] Caris Bizzaca So they don't feel like they're being watched constantly or feel like they need to perform for the camera

[00:21:05] Cian O'Clery Yeah we don't put up lights. We try and shoot on long lenses. We try and stay away as much as possible and let things kind of happen naturally. And yeah, we just try and get people's real personas out to and try and allow people to to really be themselves and to not feel like they have to be performing. 

[00:21:26] Caris Bizzaca And what do you think you may be brought from that time working on reality TV to a series like this? 

[00:21:36] Cian O'Clery Look, the the main thing is just trying to make sure that we have stories that are going to be interesting for an audience to watch, I guess, at the end of the day. But the way that we do make Love on the Spectrum is we're not trying to force stories. We're not trying to steer things in certain directions. You know, we're not trying to stir up trouble.

[00:21:58] Caris Bizzaca You're trying to create drama in the reality format, you know, emphasise the drama, whereas in this you're still telling a story, but you're letting it play out. 

[00:22:07] Cian O'Clery Yeah. Letting stories happen in a more organic way and we're just trying to tell stories in a different way and I guess, part of it is the nature of the people that we have included in the series. There's something great about watching people who are really sweet and genuine and nice and going through something for the first time. 

[00:22:27] Caris Bizzaca And, you know, it was made for ABC TV here in Australia, but there has been that sale of season one to Netflix. What's the response been like since it went out on Netflix? 

[00:22:40] Cian O'Clery It's been really good, actually. It's weird. You know, it's strange. You you make this show for Australian public broadcaster and suddenly it's in two hundred different countries and being translated into however many languages. But the response has been really great. And I'm actually in the US at the moment working on a top secret series, you know what it's like in this industry. But the people I've met here are always talking, like the industry here in LA is really positive about the series, which is great. So, look, it's just nice to be able to export something rather than always importing as Australians. 

[00:23:21] Caris Bizzaca And with that, like going into season two. So, you said it was it was a new kind of format, you were trying something out, but you knew it worked, you knew it had connected with people. What did you want to do then with the second season? 

[00:23:35] Cian O'Clery I don't think we were too prescriptive about what it would be or how it would be different or, you know, it wasn't like we were saying, 'hey, we've got to make it bigger and better'. We just thought, 'well, let's continue to follow the stories of a couple of people who are still wanting to date, still wanting to find somebody. And let's make some new people and let's continue to try and explore that diversity of the spectrum that that's so important'. One thing that was really important to include was to show someone who's on the spectrum dating someone neurotypical. That was something that unfortunately didn't make it into the first series. We did film a story, but the people decided not to take part anymore. And so we respected that. So that was really important. Kassandra's story was was really good for showing that and being able to tell the story of someone like Kassandra who is autistic, but a lot of people say to her that she doesn't look autistic or doesn't seem autistic and just being able to represent her experience was great. Yeah, look, we just thought it'd be nice to have some familiar faces and some new ones. We thought it would just be a nice way to to lead into a second series. 

[00:24:45] Caris Bizzaca And so when you're filming, do you have an idea of an end point or do you need to go back and film picks up? How does that work in terms of tying up the the end of the season? 

[00:24:58] Cian O'Clery I guess because we have a longer shoot period with less days per week, it gives us more time to talk things through and keep our eyes on where the stories are all going and where everybody's at. And to be able to, I guess, make sure that we have told someone's story I guess in a way that feels right. I work with my team. Jenni Wilkes is a series producer. I work with her and we're always having conversations about, this person met this person, and things seem to be going well. So why don't we see if another date's on the cards? And I guess you just go from there and take every day as it comes and be very flexible and fluid in terms of how we're going to approach filming and how we approach the schedule. It's quite stressful at times because our schedule changes all the time. I mean, it's just constant. It's a Tetris game, trying to trying to tell these stories the way we do it. And when you asked before about 'what do we try and do with series two that was different from series one', I guess we didn't really try to change anything up in particular. But what did happen kind of naturally, it's one of the things we were hoping for, but it did happen was that we got to see people develop relationships a bit more rather than just go on one date or two dates with someone. So I think that's what was really nice about series two. And that's what makes it different, I think, to series one. 

[00:26:26] Caris Bizzaca And, you know, with Employable Me and Changing Minds, you're working the three by one hour format. So three episodes at one hour for each of them. And then for Love on the Spectrum you moved to, so season one four eps and then season two five eps. What prompted that shift and how did you find it working on the longest season?

[00:26:49] Cian O'Clery Yeah. So when we pitched Love on the Spectrum to the ABC and Josie Mason-Campbell was the head of factual then and she said, why don't we make four episodes? And we thought, OK, sure, fair enough. We'll do our best to make four. I'd only previously made three episode series before that, so it was a little bit daunting because it's a lot of content. It really is. It's really a lot of content. And an ABC one hour is between 52 and 58 minutes or something, like it's a lot. A commercial hour is like 40 minutes. So it's a lot of content to be able to capture but series one, it wasn't a problem. We just had some great people and we had some great stories. And, you know, those four episodes came together nicely. What happened with series two was we were asked to make four episodes again, and after filming the series, I just felt like as we started to put it together, I felt like we had five episodes. And we spoke to the ABC and we said 'we think we've got five'. And so that's what happened. They said, 'great, let's have five then'. So we actually went from four to five because we had so much content. So that's always a nice thing, I guess, to have more rather than less.

[00:28:07] Caris Bizzaca Well, you thought you wouldn't have four for season one and you had enough for five on season two. That's great. And I suppose what advice would you have for anyone working or hoping to work in the documentary sector in Australia? 

[00:28:25] Cian O'Clery Oh, that's a tough one, because there's so many different things you can do and there's so many different ways you can try and get yourself into the industry. I guess probably the most important thing would be making stuff. Anyone can make something now with the kind of equipment that's available. It's super cheap. At least making short docs or short stories or just starting to learn how to shoot. I mean, I guess it depends if you want to direct and produce or if you want to actually shoot as well. I mean, I started because I started shooting and it all kind of started through the camera and kind of made its way to infuse itself into me to then ask questions from behind the camera. But I guess the other path is to just try and get work in a production company or on a show in a role as a PA or as a researcher. That's always really helpful. You know, if you like a particular type of show or particular type of storytelling, look at the kind of companies that are making those stories and maybe approach them and see if there's any work. It is hard to get in when you don't have experience, but there's always ways. And if people are persistent, I think at the end of the day, they're always going to get somewhere. You know, it's funny because when we do look for assistant type roles or when we do look for people to work on shows, you do meet people who are really kind of blasé and seem really uninterested. And, you think, wow, I was just so desperate to work in this business when I was starting out, when I was trying to push for that job, that I think just being really proactive and showing that you're keen and showing that you're interested. And knowing what you're talking about, do the research. You know, if you're going to approach somebody to ask for work at the company or in their industry, find out a bit about what they do. But watching documentaries, watching shows, and always remembering that it's about storytelling, you know, and just thinking that something is important or an important topic or social issue doesn't mean it's going to make a good film or documentary. There needs to be a story. It needs to be told in a certain way for it to work. 

[00:30:35] Caris Bizzaca Yeah, definitely. Oh, great. Well, we will leave it there. But thank you so much for coming on the podcast today and talking to us all about documentary and Love on the Spectrum.

[00:30:46] Cian O'Clery No worries. Well, thanks for having me. 

[00:30:51] Caris Bizzaca That was Cian O'Clery and a reminder that both seasons of Love on the Spectrum are on ABC iview, while season one is also available on Netflix. For the latest episodes of the Screen Australia podcast, subscribe through iTunes, Spotify or wherever you listen to podcasts and subscribe to the fortnightly Screen Australia newsletter for funding announcements, articles, videos and more. Thanks for listening.