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Podcast – Shannon Murphy: Babyteeth and Killing Eve

Director Shannon Murphy on her feature debut Babyteeth, the skills she took from TV to features, and working on Killing Eve.

Director Shannon Murphy and actor Essie Davis talk to one another on the set of Babyteeth

Shannon Murphy and Essie Davis on the set of Babyteeth

Find this episode of the Screen Australia Podcast on iTunes, SpotifyStitcher or Pocket Casts

After years working on television series including Offspring, Love Child, Sisters, Rake and On the Ropes, Shannon Murphy had been contemplating making the move into feature film.

“I had, but I wasn’t in a hurry because I was really loving directing television and I just knew that at some point the right script would come my way,” Murphy says on the latest episode of the Screen Australia podcast.

That script was Rita Kalnejais’ Babyteeth, which became Murphy’s feature directorial debut, made its world premiere in competition at Venice International Film Festival in 2019, and is now releasing in Australian cinemas through Universal Pictures on 23 July (watch the trailer here or below).

Murphy talks about how her background directing theatre influenced making Babyteeth (which Kalnejais adapted from her play of the same name); balancing the comedy and drama of the film; and why, despite so much shooting experience in television, those first few weeks of the shoot were still so challenging.

Babyteeth follows seriously ill teenager Milla (played by Eliza Scanlen) who, much to the horror of her parents (played by Essie Davis and Ben Mendelsohn) falls madly in love with smalltime drug dealer Moses (played by Toby Wallace, who was awarded the prestigious Marcello Mastroianni award at Venice for his performance). As the one-liner says “Babyteeth is a heartbreaking comedy about how good it is not to be dead yet and how far we will go for love.”

Following the film’s screening at Venice Film Festival, Murphy then travelled to Europe to shoot two episodes of the third season of Killing Eve (read about how Babyteeth helped her land the opportunity here), and also speaks to that experience and the differences between directing television locally and abroad.

For feedback about this episode, please email [email protected].gov.au

Babyteeth releases in Australian cinemas on 23 July. Check your local cinema for session times.

Subscribe to Screen Australia Podcast on iTunes, SpotifyStitcher or Pocket Casts

Audio Transcript

[00:00:05] Caris Bizzaca Welcome to the Screen Australia podcast. I'm Caris Bizzaca, a journalist with Screen Australia's online publication Screen News. On this episode of the podcast, we're joined by Shannon Murphy, the theatre and television director who made her feature film debut with Babyteeth, which releases in Australian cinemas through Universal Pictures on the 23rd of July. We've put a link to the trailer in the show notes, but the film follows seriously ill teenager Milla, played by Eliza Scanlan, who as Shannon says in the film's director statement is, "at 15, at the precipice of feeling more alive than she's ever felt, yet abruptly facing her own mortality". Much to the horror of Miller's parents, played by Essie Davis and Ben Mendelsohn, Milla falls madly in love with small-time drug dealer Moses, played by Toby Wallace, who was awarded the prestigious Marcello Mastroianni Award at the Venice International Film Festival for his performance. As the one-liner says, Babyteeth is a heartbreaking comedy about how good it is not to be dead yet and how far we will go for love. Throughout the podcast, Shannon discusses the similarities and differences between directing television and feature film, what she learned making Babyteeth, and some of her takeaways from directing two episodes in the third season of the hit series Killing Eve. Remember to subscribe to the Screen Australia podcast through iTunes, Stitcher and Spotify. You can also subscribe to the Screen Australia newsletter to get the latest funding announcements, opportunities and updates. For feedback about this episode please email [email protected] Now, here's the chat with Babyteeth director Shannon Murphy. 

[00:01:47] Caris Bizzaca So welcome to the Screen Australia podcast. 

[00:01:49] Shannon Murphy Hi. 

[00:01:49] Caris Bizzaca Thanks for joining us. And your new film is Babyteeth, but can you talk us through your background in the industry and some of the projects that you've worked across previously? 

[00:02:04] Shannon Murphy Well, I started off as a theatre director because I went to NIDA in 2007 and then after quite a few years of directing theatre, I went to AFTRS for film and television in 2013 and so when I came out of that, I did an attachment with Imogen Banks and started working in television. So my first job for directing TV was Offspring. And over the years, I've worked with a few different production companies here in Australia. And then Jan Chapman and Alex White offered me my first feature film which was Babyteeth. 

[00:02:43] Caris Bizzaca And had you been wanting to make the move into feature film? 

[00:02:49] Shannon Murphy I had, but I wasn't in a hurry because I was really loving directing television, and I just knew that at some point the right script would come my way and I was really fortunate to have Babyteeth because I really connected very strongly to it and I think Rita Kalnejais is an incredible writer. 

[00:03:07] Caris Bizzaca Yeah, definitely. And from my understanding, it's also based on the play Babyteeth, is that correct? 

[00:03:13] Shannon Murphy Yeah. So Rita also wrote the play, which was on originally at Belvoir Street Theatre in Sydney, and that's where the producers saw the production and approached Rita to turn it into a feature film. 

[00:03:27] Caris Bizzaca And you were saying before you have a background in theatre. Do you think that that background helped in terms of directing this story for the screen at all? 

[00:03:36] Shannon Murphy Definitely. I think my style, even in my theatre work, was always very physical, always had quite a strong soundtrack to it. And I do really love characters that are larger than life and can kind of be pushed theatrically, even on screen. But, of course, to still be completely grounded and believable. So I do think that I borrow a lot of my visuals and theatricality of my work from my theatre background. 

[00:04:06] Caris Bizzaca And for anyone that's listening that maybe hasn't heard of Babyteeth yet. Could you give us a bit of an idea what it's about? 

[00:04:14] Shannon Murphy Yeah, we like to say it's a story about how good it is not to be dead yet. And that really sort of just captures the tone of the irreverent comedy and when you try to describe it any other way, I feel like it often lends itself to thinking that it's like other films on this topic of sort of teen love and terminal illness and druggie boyfriends and it just, it starts to not sound like a film that represents what it is. So, yeah, it's a very dysfunctional family drama, but it's also very, very funny. 

[00:04:55] Caris Bizzaca Yeah. Because there is that love story there but then, you know, the characters played by Essie Davis and Ben Mendelsohn, who play the mother and father, are such a huge part of the story so it would seem unfair to say it was a romance. It's also got that family side to it. 

[00:05:12] Shannon Murphy Yeah. And for me one of the most interesting themes that Rita's exploring is addiction and how everyone in our lives is addicted to something and how that can really be highlighted when people are in a state of crisis and watching how people respond in those very pressured times in their lives is what's really interesting to watch in this story. 

[00:05:38] Caris Bizzaca And you mentioned the tone, because it does kind of walk that line between comedy and drama with like some really heavy themes, but some really quite funny moments as well. How do you achieve that as a director? Is it in the editing? Is it in the actual shots? Like as a director, how do you achieve that? 

[00:05:59] Shannon Murphy I think initially it's the kind of stories that you're naturally drawn to which match your personality. And both Rita and I very much have the sense of humour that is in the film. And I think what I really like to do when the tone is so unusual, which is something I love to be challenged by, is to get a really different range of takes from the performers so not to kind of be arrogant and feel like, you know exactly what this is going to look like in the edit. To give yourself the options. And when you think that, you know, you have succeeded in uncovering a scene, that you should just keep pushing yourself further to discover what else could be there and not to just play in the obvious areas, to really go much deeper and much further and actors respond really well to that. 

[00:06:45] Caris Bizzaca Yeah. So how long did you kind of spend finding then the cast for this and piecing that together, how important was it? 

[00:06:53] Shannon Murphy Yeah the casting process was quite long in many ways, particularly for Milla. It took me a long time to work out who. 

[00:07:00] Caris Bizzaca Is the central character. 

[00:07:02] Shannon Murphy Yeah, who should play Milla. So I think sometimes the act of casting can also be for a director, the act of discovering who this character really is. And often you can have it quite solidly in your mind but with Milla I didn't so I had to see a lot of different young actresses to start to piece together who I really felt she should be and Eliza is just quite incredible in her range of what she can do and I knew that she'd be able to bring the many facets of Milla but also to do something that's quite difficult in the film, which is to set up who she is before she meets Moses, which is only about a minute and a half of the film, and then to suddenly be sort of morphing and shape-shifting throughout it as she's sort of discovering who she is at this existential time in her life and also falling in love for the first time. 

[00:07:56] Caris Bizzaca And, you know, obviously, it had its world premiere in the official competition at Venice. For you as a director, what does it mean for a film like Babyteeth launching there in terms of getting it out into the world and the kind of press that comes with that and things? What are the significances of those world premieres at festivals? 

[00:08:17] Shannon Murphy It's a complete game-changer, really. I think you know, when we made Babyteeth, we of course all had high hopes for it because that's why you make a film. But, you know, getting into competition at Venice was a dream come true. And when we got there, just the level of enthusiasm. We won some Italian critics awards and just those events that we went to, it was like being filled with a room with 50 different Roberto Benigni's. Everyone was so enthusiastic for what we'd made. It was just amazing. And all the critics were so detailed and thoughtful in their questions and it was a really unique experience because I just had never made a film so I didn't realise how much they really take the time to uncover your body of work and what you've been focusing on and in many ways, they're reflecting back to you who you are as an artist.  You sort of are defined by what other people decide and think of your work in many ways and I thought that was really interesting. 

[00:09:20] Caris Bizzaca Yeah. I actually never really thought about that but you kind of made the point about, yeah the reception being different to when you create television work. So is that one aspect of it, that you've found, is that feature film, it kind of, the response is more personal? 

[00:09:37] Shannon Murphy Yeah, I did. It felt much more personal actually, because I think, you know, you have so many interviews with people from all over the world, but they're just very thoughtful I think, people who have dedicated their life to critiquing and interviewing people about cinema and yeah it felt very personal. And I think with television, it's a bit more like theatre. I mean, I used to love to go to bathrooms during my theatre productions because nobody knows what the director looks like and so you can listen to what everyone's talking about during interval. And I feel like Twitter's the same and that's what I do with television. I watch what people are saying on Twitter about the episodes I've directed. So that's how you find out. But you don't get the huge articles critiquing the work or the kind of much longer, robust discussions. Not often, at least. And so that's really, yeah it's just very invigorating. 

[00:10:29] Caris Bizzaca Yeah. And there was some articles at the time that, you know, did kind of focus on gender and that you're a female director. And is it frustrating at all to continue to answer questions like that? 

[00:10:44] Shannon Murphy I was frustrated that it kept coming up about Venice because, you know, it's a huge achievement to go to Venice and be in competition for a first time filmmaker, no matter or however many films you've made and so for it to be overshadowed by gender was really frustrating. But I think I made my point really clear about that when I was over there. I think what is important is, you know, all the discussions we're having about diversity across the board and all kinds of storytelling are really important and I just think that to continue pushing that more women and more people of colour need to be heard and seen on our screens is essential because otherwise we really are stuck in a rut, telling the same male gaze stories that we've seen time and time again. And so that's what's important. Our audience is so wide and everybody's craving original material and the best way to do that is to keep expanding who those people are that are telling those stories. 

[00:11:45] Caris Bizzaca And we were talking a little bit before about some of the differences between feature film and television, in terms of that reception side of things, but from the actual directing part, in what ways was it different or similar to, say, directing like a four-part TV series like On the Ropes or something like that. 

[00:12:04] Shannon Murphy I definitely think that coming straight off On the Ropes, I think I only had a few days off pretty much before going straight into Babyteeth. So when you're sort of running on that treadmill of having just created a, you know, an almost four-hour TV series and then straight into a feature, it was great cause my muscles were really flexing and ready to go. And so that was incredibly helpful because, of course, setting something up and doing it all yourself is very much like a feature film. So it actually didn't feel that different. Plus, I brought over Amelia Gebler, who did costumes on On the Ropes, and also Angela Conte, who did hair and makeup, and Amanda Brown, who did the music for On the Ropes and Steve Evans, my editor. So that was quite a nice transition because then we could also continue working on the language of the work that we'd been creating together and move straight into another project. In terms of, say, when you come on board for a TV series and it's already set up, that is quite a different challenge because you're fitting into a team that you didn't create and you're adjusting to a style that may or may not be your style, but you're going to still elevate your scripts and make them the best episodes you can. But I think there's just very different challenges with each one really. 

[00:13:20] Caris Bizzaca Yeah. In terms of like the time frame with something like On the Ropes and Babyteeth, was it comparable. I'm just thinking like if something's in four parts. 

[00:13:29] Shannon Murphy Look, I'd say these days films are made pretty much as fast as television. It definitely felt like that for the first half of our shoot for Babyteeth, which was quite hectic because we had to get Ben shot out. But I think the incredible discovery for me was how much I would enjoy a really long post process, well by really long, I think it was actually short for most feature films, but for me, it was the longest post period I've ever had on anything. And that was really luxurious and wonderful on Babyteeth. And I think, you know, it made me understand how important it is and just what a gift it can be when you do have much more time. So I really enjoyed that. 

[00:14:08] Caris Bizzaca Because how fast is it in TV? 

[00:14:12] Shannon Murphy TV is insane. TV is like, gosh, I never have a memory for time. It's very strange. It's like I go into a vortex and I forget. But I think you have like two or three weeks. Two weeks pretty much before you show your producers a cut and then it just keeps, like your deadlines keep coming like a few days later, producers, network, a few days later, like, it just feels chaotic in some ways for television in Australia. In the UK, it's different. They have much longer post periods, much longer and that feels better. So for Killing Eve, they had, like, double the amount of post time at least, which was good. 

[00:14:58] Caris Bizzaca Yeah. OK. And so Killing Eve was something that I was wanting to talk about as well. Did that in the terms of the timeline of things, that came about after Babyteeth had already, the edit had already happened and it was wrapped?

[00:15:12] Shannon Murphy We went straight, I came straight from Venice and flew to London and started on Killing Eve. 

[00:15:19] Caris Bizzaca So On the Ropes, Babyteeth, Killing Eve, one after the other?

[00:15:23] Shannon Murphy Yeah. 

[00:15:27] Caris Bizzaca And how was that experience, you know, generally working overseas on a TV series like that? 

[00:15:33] Shannon Murphy Yeah, it was really fun. The Killing Eve team are actually quite a tight knit group, they're not a massive company. And, you know, on set, it's not like a huge, expansive crew. It's a really kind of lovely, intimate group of people. So it felt really like a wonderful way to step into my first job overseas. And they do have a lot more pre-production time as well on TV in the UK so the shoot times always feel the same sort of high, intense, fast-paced stress-head experience, whether you're doing film, TV or, you know, a four-part mini series. But I think pre and post is longer in the UK and that's really nice. They like you there every single final step of completion, which is unusual, but brilliant. 

[00:16:21] Caris Bizzaca Yeah. So since having had that experience working on an international production, coming back to Australia, would you change any of the ways that you approached TV, directing TV here based on what you learnt over there? 

[00:16:35] Shannon Murphy Yeah, I think it's a tricky one because everyone does budget pretty much for what they can afford but I do think longer pre-production would be so much more helpful. And I think you're always just learning, the more experience you get to ask for more things that you know you need that will make the work even better. So it's always good to learn and then to try, you know, give it a crack and ask if you can get what you need or want. But at the end of the day, the limitations I also find quite stimulating and that's probably from my theatre background too. You know, we have small budgets and limited resources and you've got to make the most of what you have and that's in many ways also the exciting part. 

[00:17:22] Caris Bizzaca Yeah. It's kind of like the creativity comes from having those limitations as well. 

[00:17:27] Shannon Murphy Yeah, exactly. 

[00:17:30] Caris Bizzaca And with your background in TV,  what kind of skills do you think you brought from that into feature film, whether it's about the shooting or the pre-production? 

[00:17:41] Shannon Murphy Oh, I think all of it is so helpful. I think for me the transition from TV into film was just so great. Like, I don't think if I'd only made shorts that I'd necessarily be anywhere as ready for, the longer shoots. Just on every single TV show I was doing, I was learning so much from the first ADs and the cinematographers and every single head of department that I worked with. So I think, yeah, it's that wonderful thing of with every production company that works very differently, coming into this world and working out how you like to work, what they've taught you that you want to take into your next job and, you're always experimenting about what things you don't want to do. Like, I really get frustrated with scenes shot in cars and I've done them quite a lot of different ways now and it's about trying to then, decide in the future exactly how you want to do that. But it is, it's all trial and error and you're constantly learning on the job. So I think television gives you a wonderful and also a bit more of a safety net, because all the spotlight isn't on you and that's what's wonderful. You can experiment, make mistakes, ask people for help. That's what I do a lot of, and try and constantly get better while you're surrounded by so many other directors, a lot who can be more experienced than you, and can sort of buffer your eps, not that your eps aren't going to be good but producers and everyone can help hold you up and make sure that you still do really well even though you're learning. 

[00:19:14] Caris Bizzaca Yeah. There was a director that I've spoken to, who works in TV, and they said that the great thing about TV is that you can figure out really interesting shots, maybe like one per episode so you're trying to get the episode down, but you can always have time to do something interesting that's kind of a reflection of your style, even though you're staying within the boundaries of what the style of the show is. 

[00:19:39] Shannon Murphy Completely. And I think these days, more and more, they hire you for your style. Like, I think Killing Eve definitely does that. They want you to offer something different. They don't want everything to always look exactly the same in their show. And I think audiences are demanding that in many ways now. They don't want everything to be predictable in any way. 

[00:19:59] Caris Bizzaca Yeah, definitely. And in terms of making your first feature film, was there anything that, you know, you feel like you learnt during the making of which no one really kind of told you to expect or look out for?

[00:20:19] Shannon Murphy No, I mean, I think I didn't expect the first few weeks of the shoot to feel so hard because I'd had a fair amount of shooting experience. But there was just quite a bit of pressure, because when you have someone like Ben who has to go straight onto other work and you know that because we gave him a moustache, I was never going to get him to really be able to come back for any pickups because trying to regrow that moustache would be a nightmare. So I just was aware of how tight our parameters were and that kind of pressure was not enjoyable. But having said that, we were still making great work on the day. But it's almost like after Ben left, it was almost like we could have like a wrap party, even though we weren't finished at all but it was because we all were high fiving ourselves for having gotten through that, because it was just a really tight, tight schedule. And we had such big challenging scenes to shoot upfront and, you know, that's just always a lot to ask of everyone. But we were so proud and, you know, everyone was putting the pressure on themselves, all of us, the actors, all the heads of department. And so we, you know, rallied together and made it happen but I remember coming home and, like, almost just wanting to burst into tears every night, going, 'it shouldn't feel this hard', but then we got to ease into the pace of a film once we had it all that done. So, yeah, I didn't expect that first kind of 10 days to feel as hard as it did. But it's not it's not easy this line of work. You do it because you love it. 

[00:22:03] Caris Bizzaca Yeah. And like you said, there's context there? You had the 10 days with Ben. 

[00:22:09] Shannon Murphy And also the hair cutting, like I'd also put myself in this position, like I refused to give up the hair cutting of Milla. I wanted that to be done for real. I didn't want us to wig her and then cut a wig because I really felt like it's important to let Moses cut her hair for real. And also because I just wanted that honest look of her punky haircut to be her own hair so we had to fit in those scenes with Moses and Milla, which were, of course, moments then that we couldn't be shooting Ben even though we needed to be shooting Ben. So it was also things that I had insisted upon, which was everybody was agreeing with and on board with but it was my own doing as well. 

[00:22:49] Caris Bizzaca Well I mean, it worked out so. And can you talk me through, there's a scene in the film, it's a party and Milla walks through a number of rooms and the lights kind of change, the camera follows her, and it seemed like quite a complex scene to pull off. Can you talk me through figuring out that scene and and how you went about it? 

[00:23:14] Shannon Murphy Yeah, that was a really big scene that we were excited to shoot because we knew that from when they enter and come up the stairs to the party the whole way through till the final beat where she's interacting with the performance artists, we wanted all of that to be one shot. And we also knew that we wanted to hit these very specific marks where particular lights would hit Milla's face, such as the fireworks, and we had a lot of interesting projection going on in each of those different rooms. And we wanted it to feel like an art school party, the kind of party that Milla wouldn't have gone to yet, but would have been really captivated by. So we did quite a lot of takes of that and Andy was just incredible because he had been working really closely with projection art, Andy Commis, our DP. And we just kept massaging it and there were just these amazing moments that happen where she would happen to turn at the exact moment and the firework would come across. And then, you know, we'd choreographed all the beautiful work between her and Eliza Scanlon and Shannon Dooley, who is our performance artist. And because we played the music live on the day, I think that always really helps everyone, because then the camera is in sync with the performers and everybody's feeling the same energy. So I think that had a lot to do with the success of that. And, you know, they were doing an amazing job. It was in the middle of Sydney summer, it was obviously daytime, but we had blacked everything out and so it was like a sweatbox and no matter how many fans we got in there, it didn't make it cool enough. So everyone was just dripping and shooting that scene kind of all day so it was pretty great in the end. 

[00:25:00] Caris Bizzaca  And there's also, in what you are saying, there's also an element of theatre almost in that there are points that you have to hit and beats and there is a kind of, you know, almost like a rehearsal to achieve something like that. 

[00:25:13] Shannon Murphy Definitely. I'm really strict with my actors about movement and all of that because I know that they can do it. You know, when they understand what the end goal is and they're on board, they are almost always more than happy to just help make those moments work and stay present. And, they're just very clever. They can do it all. 

[00:25:34] Caris Bizzaca And you mentioned music. Music obviously plays a big part in this feature. And it's not just contemporary music. Classical music. All kinds of music. Can you talk through how important it was for you to find the right kind of music to play throughout this film and the role that it played? 

[00:25:55] Shannon Murphy Yeah it's really important because Millla comes from a classical family. Her mother was a concert pianist so there's an incredible appreciation for that kind of music in their house. And at the same time, when she goes to her violin lessons, she enters the world of her music teacher, who's Gidon, who we often would sort of call his house the school of life for Milla. She got to learn about so many things that her parents didn't teach her and so he would often open up her world to a different kind of music that she didn't experience at home. And that's where the Sudan Archives song comes in. And so it's those mix of influences, plus what she's sort of discovering for herself as a young teenage woman and also what Moses's influences are bringing into her. So we wanted to have a mix of Australian music, such as Cat Empire and then we also had Mall Rat. And at the beginning of the film, we had an Adelaide group, Zephyr Quartet, do a cover of Golden Brown and all the pieces are ones that myself, our music supervisor, Jess Moore, Amanda Brown our composer, and Steve Evans, my editor. We all just compiled Spotify playlists all the time leading up to shooting that everybody listens to, all the actors get access to them. And we talk about music a lot. It's really important to me, I think, because for everyone, it's a huge part of their life and their memories and ideas and I think I really wanted it to be a soundtrack that people would love, but also not have too many other connections to things in their own lives. That it could sit solely in the world of Babyteeth as much as possible. 

[00:27:37] Caris Bizzaca And switching gears a little bit. Sorry. In terms of your advice for any Australian directors particularly because you have worked across theatre, TV and now film. Do you have any advice for any Aussie directors? 

[00:27:56] Shannon Murphy I think it's just to not really worry about what other people think of your work. I mean there's just been many different times in my theatre career and TV work where I've either been the one people were talking about or then my work wasn't it, or then it was. None of that really matters. It's just really important to keep making the work that you are truly interested in. And then after many years of doing it, other people will, like I said, critics and people will define that for you. Just keep being experimental, I think is the key. I think the idea that you need to say I'm only this kind of director and this is what I make and I've got to make it really clear so people know exactly what they get when they're hiring me. I don't think that's true. I think you can continue to be a chameleon and serve the story. I don't write my own material, so I'm a kind of shapeshifter in that I sort of absorb the writing and then create something that has my natural taste in there but I don't feel beholden to always sort of saying 'this is what I do'. I think I like to think that people won't always know what my work is because I'm always honouring the story rather than worrying about what my auteur stamp looks like. 

[00:29:13] Caris Bizzaca And just lastly, you know, obviously it sounded like a pretty intense period there with On the Ropes and then Babyteeth and then Killing Eve. But have you got any plans for what's next? Are you keen to make another feature? 

[00:29:28] Shannon Murphy Yeah, look, I'm definitely keen to make another feature. I haven't got that script yet. But I'm looking. I'm really looking for something. I'd love to make another film. But the next thing I'm going on to is a project called The Power, which is by Sister Pictures who made Chernobyl. And they're in London. And it's based on a book called The Power by Naomi Alderman. And it's all about, it's sci fi, but it's much more organic than that. When you read it, it's very much looking at the idea of what happens if the power dynamics are reversed in the world and women can become more violent than men by shocking them the way that electric eels shock each other. And it can be misplaced, sometimes it can be in anger and sometimes it can be when they're sexually aroused. So it's something that they're still trying to harness and work out how to use. But it's about whether that's positive or negative if the violence in the world was shifted. 

[00:30:23] Caris Bizzaca Wow that sounds exciting. Well, we'll leave it there but thank you so much for joining us on the podcast today and talking to us about Babyteeth. 

[00:30:32] Shannon Murphy Thanks Caris.

[00:30:35] Caris Bizzaca That was Shannon Murphy, the director of Babyteeth, which is out in Australian cinemas from the 23rd of July. And to find out where it's playing near you, just look up your local cinema for session times. For all the latest updates from the local screen industry, remember to subscribe to the fortnightly Screen Australia newsletter and thanks for listening.